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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Feb 16, 2012 4:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

Can you think of a Dark Star that doesn't start with the classic DS theme intro? I can't so that is why i don't count it although i suspect the reason the DS is so short was the band basically treated it that way. I also can't think of one with a Spanish Jam in the middle. To me it just feels like really cool jamming coming out of Truckin' which wasn't that unusual then and it simply went on much longer than normal. In the end, who cares, it is fun to listen to and this thread forced me to go back and give that sequence a listen today so its all good!

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Poster: rastamon Date: Feb 16, 2012 5:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

unless this is just about the 68-69 Darkstars, the Cleveland one does not start with the classic theme >> http://www.archive.org/details/gd1973-12-06.sbd.miller.105560.flac16

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Feb 16, 2012 6:37pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

Good call! Although it kind of sounds like Dark Star within a few minutes you are correct it does not have the classic opening notes. Interesting link.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Feb 16, 2012 8:22pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

A brief description from the Dark Star Document

Cleveland 12/6/73 42:27 is remarkable not only for its scale but for its structure, which turns the customary Third Stage structure inside-out, working in toward the Dark Star theme, rather than starting from it, and moving out into space after the 1st vocals rather than back from it.

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Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Feb 17, 2012 5:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

Larry, can't find your # or email.

We are waiting for Zelboraf. Please give me a call when you get a chance. Thanks!

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Feb 17, 2012 7:08am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

busy during the day today, will try to call after 6. will also send an email.

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Poster: rastamon Date: Feb 17, 2012 7:32am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

I hope things are looking up for you Dennis. Peace and Love!

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 16, 2012 8:42pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

The 3/24/73 DS is a bit similar to 8/21/69 in that they just throw in a brief DS and move on - though the '73 DS does have a 20-minute jam preceding it, so it's anyone's call as to just where the Star starts.
Rastamon already mentioned the 12/6/73 DS that comes out of nowhere without the intro, but that was very unusual.

Dark Stars with Spanish jams in the middle....well, a couple end with Spanish jams: 2/11/70 and 6/23/74. (2/24/74 has a little Spanish tease in it, but not a full jam.)
Actually there's an interesting, little-remarked connection between the Spanish Jam and Dark Star. For several years after '68 the Spanish jam was barely played - it was revived on 2/11/70, 3/24/73, 3/31/73, and became a regular in '74 starting on 6/23/74. Note that 3 out of those 4 times, it was played in or out of a Dark Star... Weir must've found Dark Star jams the easiest place to slip a Spanish theme in! But they weren't played together again.

It's worth noting that sometimes they don't bother singing a verse to Dark Star at all, as on 6/23/74 or 11/30/73 (or, much earlier, 12/5/71).
As for abandoned Dark Stars, 11/21/73 could be an example - an earlier one is 4/26/69, where they're coming out of Mountains of the Moon, doing the usual jam for a couple minutes, then Garcia suddenly switches to China Cat. I think THAT might be the shortest post-68 Dark Star jam....

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Poster: Jim F Date: Feb 17, 2012 1:07am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

While on the subject of '74, I personally hear just a touch of Dark Star in the big jam out of WRSuite on 6/28/74. It's brief, but it's there.

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Poster: clementinescaboose Date: Feb 17, 2012 11:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

Yes you're right, I hear Phil initiate it around 10:34 into the jam on the Dick's Picks. Nice call, this is one of my favorite teases.

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Feb 16, 2012 4:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

I think you are correct , I get the feeling that they realized they sort of already did the "out there " deal, and had really said enough with that great jam, so they moved on with the rest of the show . There is a show from this era ( 73,74) in which after a huge jammed out second set , Phil teases Dark Star , I can just see Garcia giving him the "no more time " or " are you crazy" look .

Anyway, now I'm gonna break out my box of 73 stuff now ! Thanks .

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Poster: elbow1126 Date: Feb 16, 2012 6:12pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

I think it was this one. They are in the middle of one of those epic fall '73 PITB Dagwood sandwiches (Cliff's term) and they can't seem to decide which way to go coming out of El Paso. PITB for a minute then a few notes of Wharf Rat followed by 3 min of the Dark Star theme and eventually back to Wharf Rat.

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1973-11-21.sbd.fix.miller.97468.sbeok.flac16


Band Grateful Dead
Venue Denver Coliseum
Location Denver, CO
Date 11/21/73 - Wednesday posters tickets, passes & laminates
One [1:25:00] ; Me And My Uncle [2:59] ; Sugaree [7:04] ; Jack Straw [4:45] ; Dire Wolf [4:00] ; Black Throated Wind [6:20] ; Big Railroad Blues [4:29] ; Mexican Hat Dance Tuning [0:27] ; Mexicali Blues [3:14] ; They Love Each Other [4:#49] ; Looks Like Rain [7:01] ; Here Comes Sunshine [10:26] ; Big River [4:45] ; Brokedown Palace [5:26] ; Weather Report Suite Prelude [1:08] > Weather Report Suite Part 1 [4:19] > Let It Grow [8:#26]

Two [1:28:00] ; Mississippi Half-Step Uptown Toodeloo [7:35] > Playing In The Band [11:54] > El Paso [3:42] > Playing In The Band [1:00] > Wharf Rat Jam [0:05] > Dark Star Jam [3:25] > Wharf Rat [7:52] > Playing In The Band [13:10] > Morning Dew [12:05] ; Truckin' [8:22] > Nobody's Fault But Mine [4:44] > Goin' Down The Road Feeling Bad [7:57] > One More Saturday Night [4:41]
Encore Uncle John's Band [7:20]

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Poster: Dudley Dead Date: Feb 17, 2012 7:45am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

This one is relevant to the subject (DAMN another mindblower!), but the show I THINK I recall ( I don't trust my memory ), the tease is a between song tease from Phil . It comes right at the point that they would usually ride it on home with GDTRFB , etc., thus making it a weird suggestion .
How I go on this originally , was I was playing that 8/23/69 show, and not being all that impressed , then Dark Star starts , and I think "yeah, here we go ", then they bail out ! One of the reviews mentions they might still be tired from the Woodstock ordeal .

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Poster: wisconsindead Date: Feb 16, 2012 5:25pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

I agree with you elbow. I think this is one of the best early examples of the dead starting to ditch dark star or the other one to reach long out there jams. Its a stellar jam that i've been returning to lately.

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Poster: Quincy Date: Feb 17, 2012 5:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

I think the 12/15/72 Dark Star starts -- is hinted at/ called for -- at the end of the post Truckin' jam when Jerry lays down a few signaling, searching notes -- then the long jam -- then the intro. The Yerys version on this site pegs the beginning at this point, in fact splits that section at the end of what is labeled Truckin'and at the beginning of the track labeled Dark Star -> Morning Dew. But the other version breaks it up differently. The notes stand by themselves as does the jam . In retrospect, had they not played Dark Star, we might've called the passage a Dark Star tease... and much later, like on 6/17/91, we get these peppered through the show -- I hesitate to call these Dark Stars, but then again, they are among the shortest plays on the main theme. Labelings aside, I love the way those notes on 12/15/72 give me chills and signal the Star... but first that that great jam!

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Poster: light into ashes Date: Feb 17, 2012 12:45pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Shortest Dark Star ever ? And a great jam .2 from 69

Ah, good catch! Another case where they back into the Star out of a jam.
They also did Truckin'>Dark Star on 7/18/72 and 10/26/72, though the start of Dark Star is more clearcut on those dates; the post-Truckin' jams have clearly ended.

This post was modified by light into ashes on 2012-02-17 20:45:58